Dina Nikolaou: Gastronomy is a national affair

Dina Nikolaou, in a full-length interview, talks about her origins, the success of Evi Evane and explains why gastronomy is a national affair.

H.A: What are the Greek flavors and aromas you grew up with?

Dina Nikolaou: Υou must have read my other interviews. I am born and raised in the countryside, by a rural family. So I was quite fortunate. I realize know how great luck that was and a great boost of-course to be develop my skills in the culinary profession and gastronomy. 

It is a benefit after all. 

A “dowry” to have grown up in an environment where everyone cooks, the people around you and your family and gather around the table.

All events passing by, seasons and festivities around the table right?

On the other hand, to me products had no secrets. I knew very well what a ripe tomato in August means and what it tastes like. I knew very well that every season has its own goodies and it was an inviolable law. We did not get over that.

It was one of the benefits of the rural family where you lack nothing, but you have nothing to spare. Automatically, there are huge savings of raw materials, energy, way, communication. 

You learn to handle all of this at a very young age. 

I come from Kyrtoni, nestled in the prefecture of Fthiotida, in the province of Lokridos. It is at an altitude of course but it is a main village, which belongs to, let’s say, the plain of Kopaida. There was wealth and ease because we all had our farmlands and cultivated. When I was younger, residents were tobacco growers. Presently, are not. They are occupied with other crops.

Everyone had their own gardens, their own stock, all those goods, family relationships and memories. 

You knew very well the importance of Christmas. Whatever the land generously offered, you used it. 

You could understand the importance of own production. For example, the milk coming from the lambs, the goats you used it to prepare chylopites, trachana. You could learn a lot…

Since my childhood already, I could realize the change of seasons through the flavors, which we we each time prepared.

I watched my mom preparing trachana and noodles I was thinking: Oh, schools are opening!

I was 6-7 years old back then and I say now … it was the end of August.

I did not know exactly what all this meant, but I felt that … I actually knew the seasons through the preparations and the cellar we were filling.

What do I mean? I believe that for us all this is wealth. 

We may have been younger to understand, but the division of labor, the fact that we always worked since childhood, the fact that we knew how to appreciate and savor a good product without back then realizing it, but now that we grew up, understand what means to recognize a quality product.

All these were for me the richness, the flavors, the aromas that helped me to acquire ,in general, aesthetics and quality in everything that I was looking for afterwards in my professional career.

H.A: What is missing from your travels abroad and reminds you of Greece?

Dina Nikolaou: I have succeeded, I thank life for that, much the last 15 years. At the age of 22 and until 15 years ago I lived in Paris. So I started now coming back…

I was in Greece when I started presenting TV shows. This endless come-and-go. Always professionally, I work with my sister and her family in Paris with “Evi Evane“.

I do not miss Greece. First of all, I always “carry” Greece with me. Wherever I go, I’m in Paris at “Evi Evane“. All of this is Greece, right? I communicate Greece, I reproduce Greece with its products, local cuisines.

First of all (Greece) is present in all the festivals around the world, Greece does not know it, but I represent Greece.

And wherever I go, first they say: Ah, Dina, La Grecque. (Ah! Here is Dina, the Greek!) And then they say: Hey, Dina, where are you?

There is national pride in all these people living outside Greece, which is very characteristic and very strong.

In our country, at some point we may be miserable and some things are to blame, it makes absolutely sense.

When you are outside Greece, whoever dares to insult the “shortcomings” of Greece, you get angry. You react! You defend your country, right?

I carry Greece with me. It barely eludes my mind. I have travelled extensively in Greece. During the quarantine period, I had to abstain and realized that all I had built was my absolute desire because I could not live otherwise.

Because you know when you have it, you say how exhausting this might be! I spend my life on a plane. What is this?  A real madness to handle! Career in Paris, career in Greece, career further. It’s not that simple. I do not like rough work. I want everything I do, to be done properly . To be perfect, to have an impact, to be seen by the people.

So I had to organize all of this, to pull it through. But I realized I had to personalize it . Now with the quarantine it finally came to me.This is the life I wanted to live. This is me.

I find myself being involved promoting Greek gastronomy, which includes gastronomic tourism and much more. We will catch up next time.

I do not miss anything . Neither Greece nor France. Nothing at all. I am in a constant motion.

Who is Who

• Dina Nikolaou studied culinary arts at “Gordon Bleu” , “Ritz Escoffier“, “Allain Ducasse formation“, “Lenotre”
• Her restaurant, Evi Evane, was recognized by Publo Paris as “The best restaurant of International cuisine in Paris”.
• She has published numerous books, she is a presenter of TV shows in Greece & France and she is the Ambassadeur of Greek gastronomy worldwide.

H.A: How do you see the future of Greek gastronomy in 5 years?

Dina Nikolaou: Listen, different things have happened, different things are happening. 

I will tell you what incurs with Greek gastronomy. 

Some people suddenly feel that they have discovered there is “honey” here and everyone can have his fingers in the honeypot.

But they never realized that in order to produce honey, some bees worked very hard and developed another relationship with honey. 

To fall in the honey jar and mix it for their own benefit …

This presupposes you have a deep knowledge of gastronomy, immense respect and know exactly what it means and where it can get you. And what “benefits” us as Greece, as Greeks to be the next day of gastronomy, of Greek gastronomy!

I was lucky to have “apprenticed” in a country like France, a pioneer country. Many times I quote the following: “Guys, you do not need to invent gunpowder. Imitate the Italians and the French”.

I remember when I paid overweight to take Greek products with me to the Greek cuisine lessons I taught. At that time, they called me crazy and not only did I not have help, but they also called me graphic.

Now all of a sudden everyone is talking about gastronomy, about gastronomic tourism.

I know it is expanding into many areas. Besides, we all know that tourism is the “heavy industry” of our country. But that does not mean that everyone can do everything.

It needs a lot of attention, respect and methodical work from everyone. To keep what has been done well – because good things have been done – and to include everything else in a national plan, in a national strategy so that we can operate.

Putting aside egocentrism. Deep knowledge and severity are required.

I think we need to overcome our ego. When, for example, selfishness comes in the middle, that I can be better than the other in one piece, it automatically cancels everything as I try to draw the lights on me. Let me go ahead. Do I have the qualifications? Can do it?

I always say that we will be judged by the end result right ? Everything else is just words. What have you done, what are you doing? What have you offered? What do you have to offer? 

Now I understand that everyone is looking at their own gain, it is acceptable, it is human. 

But you can align your personal gain with the national gain, as it will be better for you, you will do a better job.

You need knowledge, experience, to have traveled abroad in order to understand what is going on. There is no need for people, who suddenly became prophets within 2 years. Seriousness is needed.

Clearly, Greek gastronomy also has a future, unquestionably. How could I say anything else? The very moment that would disqualify all these years that I have worked hard and all that I do and all that I have on the stocks.

What? We are going to bring things back to life. Not to regret. Personally, I tend to be optimistic, not to whine and move on. I have so many things to do that I do not have time to look back. So we keep going.

Clearly, Greek gastronomy also has a future, unquestionably. How could I say anything else? The very moment that would disqualify all these years that I have worked hard and all that I do and all that I have on the stocks.

H.A: What do you consider most important? The recognition of a Chef through awards(Michelin, Gault & Millau, Toques D’Or, Greek Cuisine Prize) or through the daily satisfaction points of those, who taste his cooking?

Dina Nikolaou: The most important is clearly your customer, who becomes a friend. Friend of your work, friend of your dining hall, friend of your vision. 

This is the most important thing. To fill your restaurant every day, to be your clients happy, to smile, to dine, to be pleased. The people, who work there need to feel it, to experience it, to be happy. This is very important. Whether this can be decoded, given a name or even received an award, it is good. It’s not bad.

As long as all these awards are ruled by logic, transparency and meritocracy. 

Paying, let’s say 300-500 euros to be included in a guide, where no one came to try your dishes, just to keep that guide operating, I really do not know what’s the meaning of this.

Τhere are only 2 guides worldwide. Those of Michelin and Gault Millau.

What is important and interests us is our businesses to be full of life, to keep our customers happy by repeating their visits. 

To be happy and every time witness that we are getting better. That way they will never grow tired of us. This is the success of a dining area alone. Everything else is just for internal consumption.

Η.Α: Which dish accompanied by Greek wine would the guests at your home enjoy?

Dina Nikolaou: With the same logic as I exactly operate in the restaurant. “Evi Evane” is my home. In collaboration with Maria, we changed the gastronomic data. Starting 16 years ago we created “Evi Evane“. 

We tried very hard to throw off the stigma of Greek cuisine, whose motto at the time was some wine, a bit of sea and my boyfriend. Greek kamaki took the world by storm.

With dances, breaking dishes as folklore attractions, restaurants tried to attract customers just to eat souvlaki.

I describe a situation that we managed to change. We sweated, we fought, we bled. It was not easy. We managed to bring along a wind of change, we paved the way for others, who do very well and reap the benefits.

However, some sweated, paving the way for progress. It was not easy. I am very happy to be one of them and our efforts were successful.

We no longer acquire just a Greek cuisine with a tourist personality or a cuisine with a summer style. We have structure, history, past and we have proved it.

I showed it at festivals, on French television, in magazine tributes, in the biggest French gastronomic magazines, I showed it all over the world.

From important senators to the French, who visit us and worship Evi Evane thus being a small bistro, aims to highlight Greek products.

Greek cuisine without Greek products does not exist. 

We honor Greek products and local cuisine. In our menu, we include lamb cooked as in Messenia, kaltsounia as prepared in Crete.

Automatically, each recipe acquires an identity, a story is told. The product is connected with the habits, the place.

Evi Evane is not just a restaurant that one would just come to dine. We are a small gastronomic embassy of our country. This is how all restaurants should be.

This was also my big role in the working group for gastronomic tourism. A group of 10 people was hired and worked voluntarily, pro bono, for a period of 9 months. Something exceptionally important!

Following the selection of the Minister of Tourism, Harry Theocharis, we submitted for consultation a dossier of proposals for gastronomic tourism with the aim of creating a national gastronomic tourism body.

My personal goal was to adopt a common line in foreign gastronomic diplomacy, very important, strengthening Greek restaurants abroad and making them better. 

We must educate them, inform them, immerse them in the use of Greek products. Work is being done there, we must not leave that. Everyone can be educated, but it must be done consciously. By adopting a national plan.

At Evi Evane, our customers will enjoy a scrumptious lamb in lemon sauce. I think dishes based in lemon and olive oil carry a very long history.

In addition, our customers will taste any ladero(based in olive oil) dish with a modern technique so that it is not rich in fats.

Greece is a country of delicious and rich vegan cuisine. We will accompany all Greek dishes with Greek wines.

French loved Assyrtiko, they know very well Malagouzia and Moschofilero, Savvatiano, up to retsina’s new generation. 

Retsina introduces a new generation that is amazing and we have to promote it, something we do. Agiorgitiko is loved by the French. Even Xinomavro, one of the most challenging varieties, they loved it even this one!

In this case, you have to pair it with the right dish, otherwise you fall into mistakes. So wine matches with our food. Greek wine with Greek land … the local recipe with the use of other Greek products. This is the triptych, otherwise it does not exist.

Η.Α: Do you consider the professional coexistence between 2 men or 1 man and 1 woman in the kitchen more “manageable”?

Dina Nikolaou: Listen! Not only have I heard but I have experienced it myself.

I was lucky from a very early stage in my career to run my own restaurant and my own kitchen and somehow enforced my own rules. So behaviors of this kind that I clearly observed, cut them off from the beginning.

Unfortunately, I observe a new generation of men, who … are boys who lack education and enter directly into this chaos, the egocentrism of MasterChef and Instagram and appearances. They can not understand many things. They are impatient, they are rude, they have no manners, they have no education.

Working in the kitchen is a very serious profession, very competitive and needs smart people, with open minds. It needs curious people, cosmopolitans, people with love for other national cuisines. People who will understand, will connect the recipe with tradition and memories. Those, who will understand human needs and be able to evaluate those needs. Unfortunately, this level of professionals does not exist.

We are talking about people, who have been forced to complete their high school studies and suddenly found themselves in MasterChef.

They feel a lot of anger, rage and impatience. These feelings have no place in a professional kitchen. Gastronomy is not only to take pictures on Instagram.

There is lack of respect! Social media did good but at the same time caused harm. They come to level everything! A man with a 25-year career, who has attended the best schools, with important and respectable gastronomic seminars in his toolbox.

In Greece, some advertising companies invite a Chef to an event where a blogger will participate, a former cashier in Sklavenitis and be known as Food blogger, where both of them are presented as equals.

In short, they do not understand, there is no education that will allow them to understand both the quality of people and what they should ask of each person.

A food blogger has his role, but hey guys, don’t mix it all up! Is this thing being done? We must finally understand it!

For me the biggest problem derives from it. Lack of Education, Lack of Education. Literally!

People have power issues. They want to rule quickly. They do not have ideals, they do not have a vision. All they are thinking about is how to quickly stand out , to join MasterChef and be promoted focusing in increasing their Instagram followers. What’s left to discuss? It takes work, a lot of work.

When it comes to men and women in the kitchen, I think everyone has a role to play. I think the woman is a more completed entity in the kitchen. 

It’s her aura, her nature. I have never imitated male role models in the kitchen trying to prove that I am the Chef by demanding respect and obedience. I have not felt the need to impose myself on anyone.

I want us to work together, to run things smoothly, quietly, with our nice music, not to scream, not to shout.

Knowing what it means to be dedicated to a job, to a person and to support and love that person.

I helped a lot of people and they were the first to find an opportunity and stabbed me in the back. Why? Because I did not shout at them, I did not throw a pot at them. 

They thought, since I was another role model in the kitchen, that I was an easy target. Of course, they proved wrong, because they understood that I lasted longer. No easy target can last. But it does not matter, it does not matter. I do not stick on that.

What worries me is that people do not have quality, lack education. I think it will be an obstacle on the evolution of Greek cuisine and gastronomy in general.

I can’t do it now. I had greater endurance, when I was younger. I assumed the role of the psychotherapist in my teams. As a mom, I wanted to protect them … I have done everything. Now I am not up to it. I understand from the very first day, if someone is up to the role or not and I don’t have time. Not an hour to lose.

What worries me is that people do not have quality, lack education. I think it will be an obstacle on the evolution of Greek cuisine and gastronomy in general.

H.A: Ιn your highly demanding professional program, what is it that you draw strength from?

Dina Nikolaou: The goals are too great in order to allow peoples’ failures or grudges to drag me and pull me down in the darkness of failure, of complexes and phobias. What I have inside me is much bigger and positive.

The sun that I see in front of me is brighter, bigger compared to the darkness, in which some people are trying to drag me into. So I do not think, this is an issue.

I have a magical relationship with the people who come and dine in the restaurant and with the people, who follow me both on TV and through the various Food companies that we have been collaborating together for years and creating products. That’s the sort of power for me.

It is when some people … For example, on our website, we receive 300 messages per day about the recipes I publish, the credit these do, regarding recipes’ success and they thank me for that. 

We are there, we are close to them. I am there, I am close to them. This is important to me. There are people who support me, love me and trust me from the very beginning. That’s important to me. Trust is a great asset.

H.A: As an Ambassadeur of Greek gastronomy abroad, do you think that your responsibility is growing day by day?

Dina Nikaolaou: Every day that passes, every thing, every success, every step I take is more about the things that everyone expects from me and what I demand from myself. What makes me anxious and is the greatest, the strictest judge of all, is myself. That is, as soon as I approach a goal I can not rest. For me, resting on my laurels equals to melancholy.

This is my own character, good or bad, but it happens. So when I see that I am approaching, I have already set another goal. Many times my own people tell me to relax a little. That I have to enjoy success a little. Learn to enjoy it. I’m already somewhere else, this is my strength and this is what keeps me going. This is my joy, this is my pleasure, that I am already somewhere else.

H.A: Αt the end of each TV show what is the first thought that comes to your mind?

Dina Nikolaou: I have made many TV concepts and everything is different. Television for me is a popular medium, very strong, that I love. I disagree with those, who claim that television is bad. There is no good or bad TV. There is the television that everyone wants to watch.

I would like the people, who are in charge of television programs, to realize that there is an audience with an insatiable desire for quality and for nice things. I would like to give a step to people, who have something different to say. It bothers me a bit that everything is sacrificed for ratings. I think it is inhuman and at some point it will backfire. It has been done already …

On the other hand, we must all get educated, to understand and choose. We all follow and watch whether it is called television, or social media, or anything else, even our close circle of friends has to do with us. We choose them, we choose them!

If I do not want to watch something on TV, I will not watch it. It’s not TV’s fault. I mean, we create trends. So everyone has the power to change everything. People should know this and not be fatalist. There is no need for anyone to be fatalist.

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